WILLIAM BURROUGHS 1965 PARIS REVIEW INTERVIEW

Wednesday, August 20th, 2008

In 1965, the writer William Burroughs was interviewed by the Paris Review. He was 50, living in a hotel in his hometown of St. Louis. A short time later, across the pond, an artist named Tom Phillips read the interview, and decided to play with Burroughs’ cut-up method by doing “column-edge” poems with the New Statesman. He decided to take the method a bit further. He walked to a bookshop, and grabbed the first book he could find for 3 pence. He started blacking out the words, first with just a pen. It was beginning of a 40-year project now known as A Humument.

It’s easy to see how Phillips was inspired: this interview presents a brilliant mind at work, thinking about images and words and writing and how they go together. Burroughs claimed he was most interested in “dreams” and the “juxtaposition of word and image”: “precisely how word and image get around on very, very complex association lines.” He was an avid user of scrapbooks, kept files of newspaper clippings and photographs for character studies, and always wrote down his dreams. He also had a really interesting method of journaling: in three parallel columns, he would record the day’s events, his memories and what he was thinking at the time, and quotes from what he was reading. He called all this “taking coordinates”—a kind of “time travel” to see if he could “project” himself into one single point in time.

Combine this interview with the terrific Beat exhibit I saw earlier this year, and consider me impressed. (I confess that I’ve never made it through any of his books—first up on my list is his collaboration with Brion Gysin [the man who REALLY deserves most of the credit for the cut-up technique...more on that later], The Third Mind.)

Some of my favorite bits:

Seeing

Most people don’t see what’s going on around them. That’s my principal message to writers: For Godsake, keep your *eyes* open. Notice what’s going on around you. I mean, I walk down the street with friends. I ask, “Did you see him, that person who just walked by?” No, they didn’t notice him.

Writers and technology

I think that words are an around-the-world, oxcart way of doing things, awkward instruments, and they will be laid aside eventually, probably sooner than we think. This is something that will happen in the space age. Most serious writers refuse to make themselves available to the things that technology is doing. I’ve never been able to understand this sort of fear. Many of them are afraid of tape recorders and the idea of using any mechanical means for literary purposes seems to them some sort of a sacrilege.

The origins of the cut-up technique

A friend, Brion Gysin, an American poet and painter, who has lived in Europe for thirty years, was, as far as I know, the first to create cut-ups. His cut-up poem, Minutes to Go, was broadcast by the BBC and later published in a pamphlet. I was in Paris in the summer of 1960; this was after the publication there of Naked Lunch. I became interested in the possibilities of this technique, and I began experimenting myself. Of course, when you think of it, The Waste Land was the first great cut-up collage, and Tristan Tzara had done a bit along the same lines. Dos Passos used the same idea in ‘The Camera Eye’ sequences in USA. I felt I had been working toward the same goal; thus it was a major revelation to me when I actually saw it being done.

Objections to the cut-up technique

There’s been a lot of [objections to the cut-ups], a sort of a superstitious reverence for the word. My God, they say, you can’t cut up these words. Why can’t I? I find it much easier to get interest in the cut-ups from people who are not writers—doctors, lawyers, or engineers, any open-minded, fairly intelligent person—than from those who are….People say to me, “Oh, this is all very good, but you got it by cutting up.” I say that has nothing to do with it, how I got it. What is any writing but a cut-up? Somebody has to…*do* the cutting up. Remember that I first made selections. Out of hundreds of possible sentences that I might have used, I chose one.

World-building

You know, they ask me if I were on a desert island would I go on writing. My answer is most emphatically yes. I would go on writing for company. Because I’m creating an imaginary—it’s always imaginary—world in which I would like to live.

Read the complete article.

Any fans of Gysin or Burroughs out there? What texts would you recommend?




11 Comments on “WILLIAM BURROUGHS 1965 PARIS REVIEW INTERVIEW”

  1. Mark Says:

    I can’t offer any Burroughs reading suggestions, but I remember seeing a bunch of recordings on UbuWeb: http://www.ubu.com/sound/burroughs.html

  2. Tim Godek Says:

    I have to confess, as well, to listening to Burroughs’ recordings more than actually reading his work.
    But listening to him speak or read his own writings (or even others’ writings) is a treat in itself.

  3. Nick Says:

    Austin, from reading your blog and tumblr I would put good money on you enjoying the books The Job and The Third Mind. Both are non-fiction (for the most part) and deal with creative techniques as employed by Burroughs and Gysin, as well as more of Burroughs’ opinions on just about everything (particularly The Job, which is mostly interviews).

    The Adding Machine is also a fascinating read, a collection of essays, several of which are derived from the classes Burroughs used to teach and again deal with the creative process.

    In terms of fiction I would recommend picking up a ‘reader’ collection, of which there are several available. It’ll give you a good overview of Burroughs’ many styles and you can explore those works which appeal to you, from the straightforward but wonderfully honest early novels through the demented 60s and 70s and into the latter years where everything kind of evened out. Oh, Last Words is another non-fiction winner…

    The non-fiction stuff is always, always fascinating to read and is also very useful to have under your belt before starting on the fiction.

    And as Tim says above, anything by Burroughs is enhanced considerably by hearing him read it. A great place to start out with recorded Burroughs is the album Dead City Radio, which covers texts from several decades and features some interesting collaborators including John Cale and Sonic Youth.

  4. gordon campbell Says:

    have you read here to go planet r101 with terry wilson and brion gysin. 1st print best copy.
    let me know..?

  5. Austin Kleon Says:

    Y’all are great. Thanks so much for the recs, especially Mark for those awesome audio files.

    Nick: THE THIRD MIND is definitely on my list, and i’ll add THE JOB as well. Great idea about the “Reader” collection.

    Gordon: I have not read that. Recommended?

  6. Nick Says:

    I’m sure you’d also enjoy The Burroughs File, which is a collection of ephemera that includes reproductions from WSB’s own scrapbooks – a nice companion to The Third Mind. There’s also a collection of the man’s art output called Ports of Entry which is worth a read – I picked that up remaindered a few years back so it might be easy to come by cheap.

  7. Austin Kleon Says:

    Nick: thanks again for the awesome recommendations. headed to the library this afternoon to pick them up!

  8. Austin Kleon Says:

    Another great quote from the interview:

    “[In the future] I think there’s going to be more and more merging of art and science. Scientists are already studying the creative process, and I think the whole line between art and science will break down and that scientists, I hope, will become more creative and writers more scientific.”

  9. Austin Kleon Says:

    Excerpt from a documentary on Burroughs about the cut-ups:

  10. A. Hundred Says:

    Enjoyed this bit of Burroughs – was wanting to read something by or about him, as I sometimes do, and found
    this site – great YouTube clip! Don’t think I’ve ever seen footage of the man actually doing his cut-up thing. Thanks for posting this – mentioned it to several on my list who may find it of value. – A. Hundred

  11. ALL IN A NIGHT'S WORK (blackout poems and some thoughts on collage and Donald Barthelme) by Austin Kleon Says:

    [...] the late 1950s, Brion Gysin, originator of the cut-up technique, and his buddy William Burroughs who ran with it, had this idea: writing is fifty years behind painting. And so, they looked to [...]

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